UHHH wat to wear (again)

Ok I know this topic has been covered many times over but, i am looking around and trying to figure things out...Ok i don't even have a kayak yet but i am sitting here thinking that i probably want to buy all necessary gear first. ex. life jacket, paddle, and all necessary clothing

Now i am looking around at the options on what to wear in cold water (and now living 2 blocks from the sound that is probably where i will do most of my fishing).  I see many options but it seems the ultimate option for most of you guys has been a drysuit...now im sitting here thinking a drysuit is gonna cost alot of money.  But at the same time you may buy a set of chest waders ($100 and up, mostly up  ) and a paddling jacket or dry top (close to 100 dollars or more for paddling jacket and pretty much no less than 150 for a dry top)
so i am sitting here thinking is it worth spending roughly 300 dollars on a semi dry setup that is not gonna be as comfortable which will probably lead to you buying a drysuit at some point...or do you wait save up the money and dive into a dry suit right off the bat.  Now obviously you can get cheap drysuits for around 450-500 but are they worth the money...are they bad suits or do you have to spend 800-1000 dollars to get a good suit?

i guess i don't know enough about drysuits

my biggest problem with this whole kayak thing at the moment is not only do i need a kayak that costs quite a bit but i need at least 300 dollars worth of gear to even go out in one hehe...and i don't even know if like the sport yet

i guess im sitting here having a hard time deciding wat to do and if to do

well my friend, summer is here, and now is the time to get out and paddle a few boats and see what ya think of it all.
once you decice you cannot live without a Yak.....the rest of the equipment can be purchased over time. Figure about 1K for the basics such as boat, paddle, seat and a good comfy PFD. The ocean can be done with waders in the summer months. Dry suits are the elite, doubt I will ever own one.
 The hardest thing to find that you will NEED, is the time off from work to enjoy this sport.

Watch Craigslist for bargains.  Wetsuit is a cheap and very safe/reliable option for saltwater in the warm/semi-warm months.  Kokotat Tropos dry suit seems to be the cheapest quality set up for dry suits.  I use waist high waders and and Extrasport dry top for now, but I keep checking Craigslist for bargains on a quality dry suit.

Watch Craigslist for bargains.  Wetsuit is a cheap and very safe/reliable option for saltwater in the warm/semi-warm months.  Kokotat Tropos dry suit seems to be the cheapest quality set up for dry suits.  I use waist high waders and and Extrasport dry top for now, but I keep checking Craigslist for bargains on a quality dry suit.

All excellent advise.  Get what you can first, but at the very least get a 3 mm farmer john suit.  After that, it is mostly about comfort.

You could use any old rain jacket with the wetsuit, but make sure the cuffs are good enough to prevent water from dripping up your arm.

An alternative to the Tropos is the Supernova Paddling Suit.  Instead of a latex neck seal, it has a neoprene seal ... not completely waterproof but it will mostly keep the water out.  Mid-400's MSRP for a decent one piece drysuit/paddlingsuit.  Less if you find a good sale.

-Allen

I already had waders for river fishing, so adding a drytop was cheap and easy. I like the wader route for it's double duty. Breathables are the most comfortable, but I would bet that neoprene waders would work, too. Waders will also allow you to work the beaches before you get your yak.

If I was starting from zero I'd say neoprene waders and a breathable drytop (NRS has some really nice tops from  $65 if your small or medium). I scored a breathable drytop on Ebay for $30 ($35 with shipping). Works great, but its pink. Waders and a top give you the most flexibility and work well in other fishing.

The breathable waders are nice in warm weather, but I have been comfortable in neoprene to about 78 degrees or so air temp by dangling my legs overboard or getting into the water to cool off. Its also great for your balance.

 For me I've found that neoprene has two advantage over breathables. They don't let water in as readily when flooded and they are warm with water in them. Those are big pluses up here.
 
Dry suits are nice, but you must wear insulation inside them (bunny suit is best) as they offer none. And if you don't get them large enough, you have to do an amusing (to others) fish dance on entry and egress.

All that said, for years my base layer was a $40 shorty from Costco. I still use it with the neo-waders and the dancing dry suit when its cold.

Don't forget you can rent all this stuff. Well, at least the wetsuits and probably a drysuit to give it a shot with out too big a capitol outlay.

Pink thats great then the ships can see you better 

Anyways well fine then i guess i will stick to waders and a dry top i didn't think u could get a top that cheap so that changes things. 

So another question i am sure has been answered many times (actually 2 questions)

What exactly are breathable waders made out of?
And my second question which brands are the best?

Best breathables are Patagonia and Simms, but very very $$$.  Simms are made out of gore tex (layers of fabric sandwiched over a waterproof membrane).  Patagonia uses extra heavy breathable waterproof coating over tough fabric.  Both have lifetime warranties.

Good cheaper option are Dain Baileys, the bare bones model (thats actually what they are called).  Find a fly shop that carries them.  They are similar to Patagonia in design, waterproof coating over tough fabric (though Patagonia's are tougher.)

Hodgeman's are cheap, but you get what you pay for.  Cheap thin waterproof coating over thin fabric.

Check out Sierra Trading Post. They frequently have good breathable waders at big discounts.
http://www.sierratradingpost.com

Here's what I'm doing: 

I have Dan Baileys breathables and love them for river fishing or wading the inland beaches for searun cutts. I like my 3.5mm neoprene Hodgeman's for winter fishing any time I'm not going to be hiking a lot. I like them better than my breathables if I'm floating a river in the cold fall and winter rain, and sitting in the bow of my buddy's drift boat. He likes to row most of the time (I'm not complaining!), finally letting me row the last part of the drift before the takeout, so working up a drenching sweat isn't a factor.

Somehow, I don't feel safe wearing waders in a craft where I might capsize in deep water. I feel safer in a wetsuit, so that any water entering my suit has an easy exit around my ankles. I had a hell of a time wading out of a deep hole when i slipped in and got my waders flooded once. The water is heavy and bulky and makes climbing out a real struggle. I don't know how hard it would be to crawl back into my U-12 with waders full of water. Also, wearing a wetsuit, its no problem to slip into the water if you have to.

I just washed out my old 4/3mm spring/summer surfing wetsuit (4mm torso, 3mm legs and arms). Its still in good shape. Should be skookum for heading out into the cool waters of the Ocean, Sound, Strait, or Canal. I also plan to wear it when casting for surfperch in the surf. Much better than waders for the surf. I have some neoprene socks and some water shoes, as well as my old surf booties. I still have a bunch of good "rashers" to wear under the wetsuit, too. My only concern is the possibility of friction rashes from a lot of paddling in the wetsuit. I'll find out! I'm sure Spot know what I'm talkin' bout.

I plan on getting a 3mm farmer john and a spray jacket just for paddling, but I'm making do with what I have for now.

But its Summer here now. For the warm and protected waters of tidal creeks and backwaters of estuaries, I am wearing some old hiking shorts and a capilene top, or a silk top, and with a light fleece pullover when its cool out. I am wet wading when I'm out of my boat.  Sometimes I wear capilene longjohns under my shorts and rainpants over these, to keep errant splashes from soaking my lap. I've even worn the rainpants over just my shorts, on warmer days when the mosquitoes were out.  I need to get some fast drying nylon shorts, as my old surf trunks got trashed, and then I can lose the rainpants on warmer days. I use my fishing wading jacket for a windbreaker/rain jacket, but it doesn't have neoprene cuffs on the sleeves and water can run in. Hence the "need" for a spray jacket.

On using breathable waders for kayak fishing and water getting into the set up, I actually use a pair of waist high waders (basically, tall wader pants).  I tuck the tunnel fabric of my dry top into the waders, then cinch the waist of my waders down with a neoprene belt.  Then a second neoprene belt goes below the waist of my waders, further sealing them down against the tunnel of the try top.  Finally, the outer shell of the dry top goes over the outside of the waders and both belts, and I then cinch down the neoprene gasket on it (uses stretchy velcro).

It is not as safe as a dry suit, but I'm pretty confident that not too much water is going to get in during a short 3-5 minute swim.  I would never use this set up in the ocean, though.

An alternative to the Tropos is the Supernova Paddling Suit.  Instead of a latex neck seal, it has a neoprene seal ... not completely waterproof but it will mostly keep the water out.  Mid-400's MSRP for a decent one piece drysuit/paddlingsuit.  Less if you find a good sale.

-Allen

I have one of those Kokatat Supernova Paddling Suits (Bought at REI with 20% coupon), and the material it's made of is the Tropos material.  I'm thinking you meant Tropos as an alternative to Gore-tex. 

I used my suit quite a bit this spring in some pretty chilly crappy weather (down to low 30's) and it worked great.  I just wear more or less layers underneath the suit to fit the conditions.  I bought mine one size larger than specified so I could layer up.  It feels a little bit like wearing a big bag, but once sitting down and paddling around, it sure is comfy.  I haven't had "Clammy" issues with it.  Once you get to about 65 degrees it's too hot though. 

Before I got that suit I used breatable waders (cheap Hodgeman ones) and paddling top (Kokatak Paddling Top - Goretex).  This worked pretty well for me also. Wading boots were a bit of an issue as they are bulky (can't use other shoes as the waders require 2 sizes bigger), and getting that get up on was actually more work than the Supernova suit (again, buy big).  But worked well for starters since I had the waders for flyfishing already.  This worked well up to mid 70's cause I can loose the top and roll the bibs down.  Warmer than that is shorts and maybe a paddling top (good time to see if you like it as you don't need all this other gear in warm weather - Think Bass).

My experience with Neoprene has not been positive.  To me they stink, are restricting and seem to work best when you ARE wet.  I try to avoid WET (my $.02 worth).  Since I'm geared up already, never really used it extensively.

Disclaimer - I'm one of those bad-yakers that hasn't dumped hisself on purpose to check how much water I get in either one of these set-ups, I'm coming more from the comfort point of view.

Good luck,

-= Scott

Well i don't worry so much about the water getting in the suit after watching the video that pretty much totally disproves the theory on the other website.  I forget the name but some you guys probably know wat i am talking about...but i have owned neoprene waders before and i agree they are very bulky and heavy.

Also when you guys buy waders for this type of ordeal do you buy stocking foot or boot foot waders?

I'm using my cheapo Hodgeman stocking foot waders I got for fly fishing. Because of all the wear and tear when fishing from the yak, I'll just patch these until they're dead and buy a nice replacement for wading.

Jay

I already had waders........... I like the wader route for it's double duty. Breathables are the most comfortable, but I would bet that neoprene waders would work, too. Waders will also allow you to work the beaches before you get your yak.

yeah they do, and yes they do...even on warm june afternoons on lake washington