Cobra Fish and Dive VS. Tarpon 140

My F-n-D is rigged pretty minimally.  I didn't mount anything to the center hatch because I like sit cross legged and I tend to use the hatch while on the water. 

The entire rigging consists of
- 2 flush mount Scotty bases
- Rod holder with on an extension arm
- Fishfinder on a universal mount
- Milk crate with PVC tubes zip tied on to hold rods and a net
- Bow line and stern line
- Jam cleat for a quick release anchor (not shown)

I eventually replaced the bases shown below with the large round Scotty bases because they spread the load better and are sealed at the bottom

Those are pretty sweet set-ups!  Exactly what I had in mind in terms of the bare minimums.  A couple more questions then I promise to quit asking    Spot, do you have any problem seeing detail on your FF?  PP, does your plano list to a side when the rod is in that holder and your trolling?  And lastly, noticed only one yak with a compass visible, you guys have compasses hiding somewhere or do you just not carry them?  Thanks again for the pics...those are sweet boats.

-T.C.

Those are pretty sweet set-ups!  Exactly what I had in mind in terms of the bare minimums.  A couple more questions then I promise to quit asking    Spot, do you have any problem seeing detail on your FF?  PP, does your plano list to a side when the rod is in that holder and your trolling?  And lastly, noticed only one yak with a compass visible, you guys have compasses hiding somewhere or do you just not carry them?  Thanks again for the pics...those are sweet boats.

-T.C.

Plano box is shackled in and sits rock solid even when an angry salmon is yarding on it (has a little foam under it to keep it from rattling). 

I have never seen the need for a compass.  Off-shore you are always in sight of land. Even in the fog, the swell direction will give you the same degree of accuracy a compass would. Unless you run bearings and time over distance from the start of your trip (which is very, very hard to do accurately while fishing with drift and wind etc.) a compass doesn't guarantee much.  I also have a gps and back up gps on-board.  The gps has brought me in several times in the fog, right to where I launched from.  A compass would tell only tell me the same thing the swells would that the beach is east of me

Thanks a lot fellas for the replies.  I'll be sure to post a pic of my rigged 'yak when it's done.  Hope to see you on the water.  -T.C.

Spot,

That sure is a pretty baby blue lip gripper you got there.   

-Allen

Spot,

That sure is a pretty baby blue lip gripper you got there.   

-Allen

Ummmmm, thanks....  I think.... 

Spot, do you have any problem seeing detail on your FF? 

-T.C.

No problem with seeing every pixel on the that display.  It's pretty low resolution actually.  It is a long way away though so if you're near sighted, it could be a problem.  And, I have to operate the buttons with my paddle blade while in transit.

This is why I have a compass on my boat http://www.northwestkayakanglers.com/index.php/topic,3913.0.html . My next boat will have a GPS/FF combo, but it will also have a compass as a back up. I agree that swell direction will get you back to land if lost in a fog offshore, but it's not going to account for how much you have drifted North or South.

how does the compass know (or you determine ) how much you have drifted in the fog (wind,current, tide etc)?

(in a nutshell) It has a rotating bezel. If you are paddling a strait line to your destination, you rotate the bezel to the Deg of your desired direction of travel. Then keep your boat in the direction/angle that matches the lines from the compass to the bezel to ensure you are on the right course. When heading back to your launch, rotate the bezel 180 deg. This method may not get you to your exact launch. but it would be closer than just paddling to shore with the swells should you be lost in a whiteout. Or learn to read charts and plot your trip before you launch. I am learning this online to occupy some of my time while stuck in Kuwait. I still plan to mount a GPS/FF on my next boat, but electronics and batteries do fail.

My F-n-D is rigged pretty minimally.  I didn't mount anything to the center hatch because I like sit cross legged and I tend to use the hatch while on the water.

T_C,

Yep, I also like to sit X-legged when using my F-n-D and so I also leave my center hatch clear.

Now here's the bit that's going to be really important to you (imho, of course):  The reason that I sit X-legged so much while in my F-n-D is because of the configuration of the foot wells.  That center hatch is so wide (which can be really really nice) that it leaves the foot wells unusually narrow.  In my case at least, it leaves my feet free to move fwd and aft, but no angular movement is available at all!  Once I'm not paddling and sit for only about 10 minutes to fish, I GOTTA switch to X-legged or it feels like my legs are going to break at the ankles.  That boat is stable enough that one can easily get away with sitting in this fasion, but it's something that you need to be aware of.

Having said that, I'd still recommend one.  It's not my "go-to" boat though, but I still like it for different types of trips.  Like what?  If I'm taking out a newby and want to make sure that he likes it from the beggining without feeling like his ride is too tippy, or if I'm on a trip where I'm going to need to haul a lot of bulk and/or weight.  And I truely thought that it performed just excellently down the John Day River (even well loaded down) through several sets of class II rapids.  I gotta say though, that I now also own a Malibu X Factor for all these same kinds of apps. and I think I like it better still for all the same trips, even though it's a fair amount heavier than the F-n-D.

If you're sold on the F-n-D and you happen to be on a tight budget (which you will be if you also buy that Tarpon), then I'd absolutely suggest being patient and look for a good used one.  They can quite often be picked up for as little as maybe $350 and certainly $450 where that X-Factor I mentioned is nearly always going to be $600 or $700.  I paid $750 for mine and I'm the 3rd owner.  Just watch the Craigslist and maybe be willing to travel.

One more really big deal... usually nearly everybody will tell you to "try before you buy".  Based on my own issues with the foot wells, I'd say that it's even more important with this model.  And I'd try to go for a full day trip too, to be sure to get the full effect.  You're totally welcome to borrow the one that I own for about as long as you'd like (I might even be MIA all this coming summer, not sure), but the big caveat is that I live clear the heck up north of Seattle in Bothell.  But since I can probably loan it out for several months, that might be able to make it worth your trip.

Fishin-T

Fishing-T,

That's a really nice offer.  Wow, I'm blown away. 

I've heard about the foot well issue before.  I wonder if one could manufacturer something to place in the cogs that would make it more comfortable for you? 

I'll probably get a Tarpon a little later on.  I think the F-n-D would better fit my current situation with kiddos maybe tagging along on stillwater.  They're still too little to paddle their own boats.  I've been watching Craigslist but because of where I live, I'd have to drive over the hill to look at one if one became available.   I'll probably end up ordering one so I get what I want.  I'm kinda funny that way.

Thanks again for the offer, that's awfully nice of you.

-T.C.     

how does the compass know (or you determine ) how much you have drifted in the fog (wind,current, tide etc)?

You need two compasses for true navigation. one at the bow to show which direction your pointed, and one hand held sighting compass to obtain the direction you are traveling. With two compasses it's possible to calculate drift, but really, you have to do that before you head out with tide & current info and a chart. It is possible to navigate in white out with a chart, stop watch, and compass, but you have to know the current & wind data already. Dead reckoning, triangulation, etc. are all what's going on.

With just one compass showing what direction your pointed, it's possible to stay pointed to 180S but drift several miles away from your intended target, kind of like a swinging on a rope or pendulum. It stays pointed at the same spot, but travels a large distance while swinging back and forth. If you can take 3 readings, you can draw lines on those results on your chart, and where they intersect is where you are.

There are some really good books on navigation for kayakers, and there's always navigation classes at alder creek. It's not hard to comprehend, but there's allot to be discussed....more than I care to type.

GPS is nice, and I occasionally use them, but like everything else, it's good to have the necessary skills to make it with out should electronics fail.

how does the compass know (or you determine ) how much you have drifted in the fog (wind,current, tide etc)?

If you can take 3 readings, you can draw lines on those results on your chart, and where they intersect is where you are.

This is how we do it backpacking.  GPS weigh too much and don't work in valleys.  On the ocean though, it's gonna be kind of hard to identify 3 objects on your map when you're drifting in the fog.  If you can, you already know where you are so it's moot. 
On the ocean:  The only reason I keep a small compass in my pocket is to confirm my estimation of direction if I find myself totaly screwed some day. I've never had to use it yet. But I carry one because swell direcion is influenced by the topography of the ocean floor, headlands, rivermouths etc..  Swells will pinwheel around these points of resistance.  If you always follow the swell direction without any other point of reference, you run the risk of attemping landings on sheer headlands or getting suckered into double-up zones in rivermouths.

Just my $0.02

if you know the current & wind speed & direction, you can use math to figure your drift and distance traveled and therefore navigate blind. this is how subamrines do it. remember hunt for red october?

kayaks travel on average at 3kts. if the current is moving 180S @ 2kts, and you're traveling @ 90W, making a 3km crossing, you will end up @ 2 nautical miles South of a line drawn 90W west of your position where you started.

It's possible with this information to find your position blind, and adjust your ferry angles to compensate for drift and navigate blind. you have to be on it the whole time though. you plot where you start and time traveled at every point of the journey, then plug in the numbers.

you just actually have to navigate rather than wing it.

how does the compass know (or you determine ) how much you have drifted in the fog (wind,current, tide etc)?

If you can take 3 readings, you can draw lines on those results on your chart, and where they intersect is where you are.

This is how we do it backpacking.  GPS weigh too much and don't work in valleys.  On the ocean though, it's gonna be kind of hard to identify 3 objects on your map when you're drifting in the fog.  If you can, you already know where you are so it's moot. 
On the ocean:  The only reason I keep a small compass in my pocket is to confirm my estimation of direction if I find myself totaly screwed some day. I've never had to use it yet. But I carry one because swell direcion is influenced by the topography of the ocean floor, headlands, rivermouths etc..  Swells will pinwheel around these points of resistance.  If you always follow the swell direction without any other point of reference, you run the risk of attemping landings on sheer headlands or getting suckered into double-up zones in rivermouths.

Just my $0.02

I guess what I'm saying is you can't just decide to start navigating in the middle of your journey. In order to navigate in white out, you'd have to be plotting & tracking your course from the point of launch, otherwise you are screwed. If you didn't have a fairly accurate idea of where you were on the chart by the time white out hit, you wouldn't be able to navigate back.

I generally just keep a solid idea of my position, checking it whenever I stop for a break or whatever, but don't do hardcore nav. unless I really have to as it takes some effort. as long as I can figure my position, I can find my way home.

I've rarely been so far offshore that I couldn't hear whistle or bell bouys though, and they're all designated on charts, so you could find your position if you can hear things and can't see them.