AOTY and C n'R

One of my fellow anglers at work told me about it and sent me the pic.  I'll have to give him crap for it now. 

As a sidebar, not meant to jack the thread, I think this does bring to light one flaw in the 2009 AOTY rules.  The current rules are really counter to the spirit of fishing for sport and experience.  So long as a fish is C&R'd legally it should count.  We aren't all meat fishermen and when done properly most catches can continue to live healthy lives once released; I think that is what sets fishing apart from game hunting.  I know it is too late for '09, but I'm going to lobby heavily for permitting catches that are legal for C&R (but not retention) in '10.

The current rules are really counter to the spirit of fishing for sport and experience.  So long as a fish is C&R'd legally it should count.  We aren't all meat fishermen and when done properly most catches can continue to live healthy lives once released; I think that is what sets fishing apart from game hunting.  I know it is too late for '09, but I'm going to lobby heavily for permitting catches that are legal for C&R (but not retention) in '10.

 I agree, I'd like to see us encourage CnR.

The current rules are really counter to the spirit of fishing for sport and experience.  So long as a fish is C&R'd legally it should count.  We aren't all meat fishermen and when done properly most catches can continue to live healthy lives once released; I think that is what sets fishing apart from game hunting.  I know it is too late for '09, but I'm going to lobby heavily for permitting catches that are legal for C&R (but not retention) in '10.

 I agree, I'd like to see us encourage CnR.

I don't see how we don't encourage CNR.  You can CNR all the fish you want, all day long ... oversized, rightsized, undersized, or otherwise.  We can move this to another thread if you want ...

-Allen

You don't have to eat the fish to get your AOTY points, it just has to be legal to retain it.  I voluntarily CnR many of my AOTY points.  What we don't want is to promote the harassment of native fish with excessive CnR just for AOTY points.  It's not so much the actual CnR process, but trying to get a measurement and picture for AOTY isn't exactly a CnR best practice.  Besides in WA you can't remove a native fish from the water making decent AOTY pictures and measurements just about impossible.

Same deal in oregon for oversize sturgeon.  Can't remove in any form from the water.

The current rules are really counter to the spirit of fishing for sport and experience.  So long as a fish is C&R'd legally it should count.

Encouraging Cn'R is great and I think most of us are doing a good job of it with our current AOTY rules. There's nowhere in the rules where it says you must keep your catch. Our point is we don't want our members harassing native fish that can't be taken out of the water for some AOTY points. Encouraging members to dance the line of legality would be irresponsible on our part. How about this "It's about the spirit of fishing for sport and experience and the fish's health as per the state's regs."

IMO AOTY points are gravy.

Z

My understanding of the AOTY rules...

1) A fish that can legally be taken home counts for points, whether you CnR or keep it.

2) A fish that can be legally CnR'd, cannot be counted for points.

So, sturgeon caught in Oregon on CnR only days are just for the fishing, not for the counting.

I hope I've got this right.

Jay

          

I didn't mean to insinuate that we are required/encouraged to harvest our catch for it count in AOTY.  My beef is with the fact it must be harvestable to count.  The seasons for harvesting some species are shorter than the C&R periods for the same. 

I have no idea what a "native" fish is; is this a silver fish concept?  Secondly I would argue that responsible handling during C&R is far less invasive or destructive to the fish than fike/gill netting and electrofishing with is condoned by the WDFW as acceptable means to perform a census of fish in a given body of water or for tribesmen to obtain their catch.  Maybe in the case of Wildlife  it is a "do what we say, not as we do."

Am I expecting to land a 11' sturgeon, not at all.  I do, however, know that the majority of bass I catch are >12" and <17", not eligible for retention, and open season for C&R.  I do not know enough about some of the other species and their catch rates so I'll stop there.  I love fishing for fun, but my time on the water is limited and I want to make sure it counts.  My WAF, BAF (boss approval = time off), & $$$ accounts only stretch so far.  Like I said earlier, it is something I would like to see in the 2010 AOTY.  I agreed to the rules as stated when I paid in this year and will continue to abide by them.


 

          

I do, however, know that the majority of bass I catch are >12" and <17", not eligible for retention

I totally agree, that rule bites. Does Oregon have the same rule? If not I think it's on the unjust side and we should be able to enter outside the slot limit. Does that set the wrong precedent?

Z

I do, however, know that the majority of bass I catch are >12" and <17", not eligible for retention

I totally agree, that rule bites. Does Oregon have the same rule? If not I think it's on the unjust side and we should be able to enter outside the slot limit. Does that set the wrong precedent?

Z

Doesn't the challenge of catching an out-of-slot bass add to the thrill of the experience?

AOTY is not about making it easy.  It's about determining the best kayak angler at NWKA across multiple fishing disciplines against multiple obstacles ... while having fun doing it.

-Allen

Doesn't the challenge of catching an out-of-slot bass add to the thrill of the experience?

AOTY is not about making it easy.  It's about determining the best kayak angler at NWKA across multiple fishing disciplines against multiple obstacles ... while having fun doing it.

-Allen

I agree it's definitely not about making it easy. It's not to say it's impossible to catch that 17"r but just that the OR boyz have an easier time getting AOTY points for that species since there's no slot limit. But I guess that's just the nature of the AOTY beast. The east OR/WA boyz have just as much, if not more, travel time to get some of the ocean species. I guess us Wa boyz will just have to give you OR boyz a hard time for those 13"-16" bass... 

Z

Doesn't the challenge of catching an out-of-slot bass add to the thrill of the experience?

AOTY is not about making it easy.  It's about determining the best kayak angler at NWKA across multiple fishing disciplines against multiple obstacles ... while having fun doing it.

-Allen

I agree it's definitely not about making it easy. It's not to say it's impossible to catch that 17"r but just that the OR boyz have an easier time getting AOTY points for that species since there's no slot limit. But I guess that's just the nature of the AOTY beast. The east OR/WA boyz have just as much, if not more, travel time to get some of the ocean species. I guess us Wa boyz will just have to give you OR boyz a hard time for those 13"-16" bass... 
Z

Or join us chasing bass in OR...

Playing the devils advocate here..

Example 1:
What about the restricted amount of days us Oregon folk have to retain sturgeon in the willy or Columbia systems?  Only 3 days a week versus 7 days in Oregon coastal bays or in Washington (non Columbia). Makes it harder for us to catch a keeper if you get less then 1/2 the days as someone somewhere else. 

All fisheries have their drawbacks.

Example 2:   I boated a yak caught steelhead on the Trask (Oregon coastal river)(below Lorens put in)  yesterday that would have eclipsed my previous ATOY entry by a few inches.. only problem and a nice sized problem it was... It was a BIG native Buck (estimated 16ish lbs) 37 1/2 inches...  In Washington I could have kept it, and added to my AOTY total..  Washington anglers get one native steelhead a year if I'm correct?

I like AOTY the way it is... is it 100% fair in all instances, maybe not.  But it is a simple set of rules that all  can understand and follow no matter where they live. If we start making little changes here and exceptions there, where would it end?  Unfortunately we can't make it totally "fair" for all involved.. Making exceptions opens a huge can of worms that in the end would complicate things to the point where the AOTY rules would look something like the Washington fishing regs already do

I agree with PP that simpler is better, which why permitting all legal catches (C&R included) would be simpler overall and allow for better equity of opportunity across state lines.  Because of the rediculous regs in Washington I don't even bother with trying to figure out the retention requirements for fish unless I am on a camping trip.

FAA regulations are easier to decipher than our WDFW rules. 

FAA regulations are easier to decipher than our WDFW rules.

woh woh woh...i wouldn't go that far Yarjammer but i understand your point lol

i suppose that because you catch a huge fish but it just happens that it is on a day it is not legal to keep it makes you a worse angler...or at least that's the way i read it

i agree with yarjammer...i think the only argument against cnr counting towards aoty is the fact that some fish cannot be removed from the water...and that its just the rules in place alrdy...

but it ain't my show so i don't care that much