Shrimping out of a kayak-problems

First of all does anyone fish shrimp or drop crab pots deep (100ft plus)? If so how do you do it?

My dilemma.  We can catch spot prawns close to where I launch.  I bought two smaller shrimp pots that weigh 4 pounds each but to hold in the current I am going to have to add 2 to 4 pounds meaning in total they weigh 6 to 8 pounds each.

The problem is to effectively fish them, you need to drop pots 350 to 600 ft deep. Research tells me there is two basic methods of manually hauling up a pot: 1) Rope and pulley 2)Large fishing reel with spectra.

The traditional rope method is easier but means I have to stack up to 1200 ft of rope onto a 9ft Kayak to fish 2 pots.  I can legally fish 5.  I think two is going to be exhausting enough.

I have determined that unless I buy a different reel, none of my halibut sized reels are capable of winching up 8 pounds of dead weight.  My reels tend to be high speed and it's too hard to crank.  Keep in mind 6 or 8 pounds is a LOT of weight.  I don't think a 100 pound halibut "weighs" that much in the water.

So I came up with a compromise.  I want to mount a full size manual downrigger I already own (Penn fathom master 600) and load with Spectra line.  Using Spectra line has a lot of appeal since it is a HUGE deterrent for shrimp pot thieves.  Most people won't have the means to haul up a 8  pound pot tied to spectra line. The 1:1 gearing of the downrigger makes picking up 1 to 2 ft of line per crank is easier.  Keep in mind I have no intention of trolling with it and I would use it only as a pot puller.

For me the super easy but $1,000 solution is to pick up a Daiwa Dendoh SB750 electric reel...but I digress, that ain't gonna happen anytime soon.

So now the questions for the more experienced folks here.


a) Will the plastic of a typical SOT kayak be beefy enough to hold a full size downrigger and the strain of pulling up the pots? The places I can see to mount it, I don't think I can get any additional backing on it.

b) How well would do the gunnel mounted downrigger mounts work? Seems to me they are on the very edge and raised higher.  Both bad for tippiness when cranking up 10 pounds of weight.  Maybe my temporary outrigger solution below would be ok for this too?

c) I know it depends on the lever arm distance away from the centerline, but am I just asking for trouble trying to winch up 10 pounds of weight over the SIDE of a kayak?

d)I am thinking about using a paddle float type system on a spare oar or buoy at the end of pole, to us as a make shift outrigger while cranking the pot up.  Any reason that wouldn't work?  Don't need it to run, just while pulling.  Is there another more elegant and efficient way of stabilizng a kayak on the water while just sitting still?

e) I might be able to mount a pulley on the bow and pull the pot up straight from the bow.  While that alleviates side to side tippiness, is it going to cause another unseen problem?  I have no ida how to reach the pot without a gaff or something.

Okay, daydreaming for the season opener April 15th.  I know I am supposed to figure this out through trial and error, but there seems to be just too much experience here so why waste the time if I can shorten the learning curve a bit with the expertise here if they are willing to share. 

Maybe someone just has a much better solution.  Any engineers out there?  Mine would be remote controlled airbag filled with CO2 cannisters so even I could raise 5 pots on one line from a kayak.  Hit the remote, bag inflates, just collect the line, and ready to go with another CO2 canister. 

Sorry if this seems just ridiculous to the more experienced.  If it is, don't hesitate to let me know.  If you have additional ideas, let me know. 

Hopefully Zee will come out of hibernation to chime in.

For lack of the man, here's his shrimping report.

http://www.northwestkayakanglers.com/index.php/topic,2835.msg27465.html#msg27465

-Spot-

Great report from Zee.  thx Spot.  The only problem is Zee used the brute force method and I am probably not a quarter as fit as he is and fishing up to twice as deep.

I will be interested to hear if he chimes in how hard from a balance perspective it was.  I suppose pulling crab pots from a yak has to be similar...but I haven't done that yet either.

go to u-tube kayak fishing tales there is shrimping video  from Ketchikan with pole and reel worth watching.

oooooo this deserves a bump... good luck, kardinal

What about mounting the down rigger between your legs? Allowing for a mounting plate that will let the unit swivel 90 degrees. This will center the forces on the kayak. You could throw your legs over the sides and be even more stable though this would be a shrimping only set up. Might be hard to fish around the down rigger.

@fungunnin, that would be the ideal place but I value that flat spot even if I took the downrigger off there would be a mount.  It's also a hatch but I suppose that's ok.  Leaning to the gunnel rod holder mount but not sure yet.

Here are the pots I plan to deploy.  24X12X12 inches when ready to go. 

Here's a pic of ready to deploy one, a folded one, and the downrigger I was thinking about using.

Ok, what do people think.

Whether I go with the gunnel rod holder mount or just screw the plates where the downrigger is sitting, it will be fairly close. 

I have two concerns.  The tippiness side to side.  but also having everything in the back half. 

Would you do it this way?  Arm in further?  Out further.  "In" it's closer to centerline.  "Out", the spectra line won't rub against kayak and saw it in half which I bet it will in a heart beat.  I can also reach the line to get the pot easier.

Either way, I would plan on lowering my seat, and turn around and face backwards.  That means once ready to deploy or for any adjustments, I will be paddling backwards.

Possible, not a good idea, a death trap?

Great idea about using the downrigger. Maybe make a few shallow test tries w/ the DR mounted to a board or something so you can find exactly where on the works best before drilling holes. And don't forget to report back!

Z

Great idea about using the downrigger. Maybe make a few shallow test tries w/ the DR mounted to a board or something so you can find exactly where on the works best before drilling holes. And don't forget to report back!

Z

Roger that on the reporting.  My issue is the season starts April 15th meaning i have one weekend left for testing.  And in April, the weather is never a given. 

I think I may have solved the tippiness problem caused by the pull of the downrigger.  I am basically going to try and make an outrigger off of my downrigger arm.  Should stay above water until I begin to haul up the pots and then its a matter of making sure I have enough flotation to compensate for the pull.  It's got to be better than nothing.  Either that or I am going to go with a modified paddle float as an outrigger while deploying and retrieving.  The first time, I will probably use both depending on how it goes. 

I may be able to test the theory as early as this weekend if the weather copperates even when the shrimp season is closed.  We can fish 5 pots total for all species.  For normal people its shrimp or crab and usually only one is in season or in different locations.  I am thinking about making a couple of Octopus lair traps and sending them down as well.  No bait required and the traps need to be set for a week or more so the Octopus can establish it as a den.  I can't even imagine the chaos that would ensue on a kayak if I happen to catch an "average" sized one at around 20 to 30 pounds with tip to tip arm span of up to 14 ft for the big boys. 

I am getting way ahead of myself though.  I haven't done a lot of this from my powerboat.  I have no idea why I think I can do it from a 9ft yak, but the imagination goes wild with crazy ideas...it's just a matter of how risky it is.  The shrimping though is something I will try whether I succeed or fail. 

That had to be some workout just pulling pots by hand.  I know I pull up 6 to 8 pound downrigger balls manually all the time from 100ft with this downrigger so I think its going to be fairly easy to pull up even if it does take a while.  Even though the gearing is 1;1 on the downrigger, the large spool diameter should give me speed comparable to a fishing reel with a 3:1 or more ratio...I think...I hope...

kardinal,
watch your inbox i have a few ideas for you regarding outriggers

Okay, I've run into a problem.  If I attach the downrigger with any kind of clearance from the yak I want to keep the spectra line from rubbing, there is no way I am going to feel comfortable reaching out and threading the line through the downrigger even with an outrigger since the goal is to not have to rely upon one.  I am talking about the transition from getting the main line from the buoy into a position to start reeling it in with the downrigger.

The dilemma is the downrigger has a guide at the tip and after the roller and in between the main drum.  I could take them off but I think the risk of the spectra line jumping off the roller on a wave or something is too great. 

It's either:

A) Suck it up and buy the 360 deg rotating mount so I can swing the arm in for deploying and retrieval.

B) Do all of the line attaching and such with the downigger off and then once all connected, mount it.  Though this sounds to me like a good way to lose everything overboard.  I guess I could leash it.

C) See if I can find a line attachment system I am comfortable will go through the fairly small guides mentioned above.  Then I could just have line already threaded through, that I could attach, then pull through the roller guides.   But I think this is going to require some kind of tying. i.e. a small spro swivel might pass but nothing like a clip I would feel comfortable with would.

Any one else care to offer a potential solution?

That $1,000 Daiwa Dendoh Electric Reel is looking cheaper and cheaper.....ARghh...

Thanks.

Get a large eye insert, the kind use for rod eyes.  Drill out the existing guide and glue the larger one in its place.

-Allen

Good call.  I will look into expanding the eye,  Doesn't need to be fancy, that eye, hangs straight down when pulling.  I could almost just get by drilling it out and polishing the area.

I've asked a few of my friends and I've gotten some feed back from here as well.

I think for safety reasons there is no way around buying a $100 dollar 360 deg rotating mount. I was hoping I could get by with drilling four holes but when I am in the 40 deg water trying to get back on my kayak, I am going to to be thinking "Yeah, I would have paid $100 bucks to avoid that!" I am sure my life insurance company would agree.

Going to go with the full out rigger for at least the side I am pulling on when I am deploying and retrieving pots. Can't get around the stability factor to my satisfaction. 

Can't fish more than two pots without testing.  My Kayak is rated for 325 pounds and I am 200 clothed so between the pots and the downriggers, I am thinking 20 more pounds, the outrigger, then the rods and gear.  Do NOT want to overload.  I have paddled around with my 50 pound son and it was no problem at all. 

This is getting to be way more complex than I had expected.  I hope the results are worth it!

I was wondering if you built a mount that could use the two scupper holes behind the seat,  instead of mounting it directly to the yak? or the scupper holes in your lap/feet?

It would still need to be leashed of course....if in the rear position maybe add a longer boom and pull the gear directly over the rear/tail keeping everything centered? might have to sit backwards?....just some thought over mounting it directly to your yak.